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Ambassador Brankovic: Excellent level of Romanian-Serbian political relations very hard to achieve at economic level
Romania and Serbia strive to get, in terms of economic relations, at the same "excellent level" of the political relations, but this target is "very hard to achieve," Ambassador of Serbia to Romania and the Republic of Moldova Branko Brankovic said in an interview to Agerpres.
"The economic relations are good, but there is always room for improvement. We are striving to bring the economic relations at the level of the political ones between our countries. (...) It's a very hard target to achieve. It's not that we don't want it, but the level of political relations is so high that we don't know what we can do - Serbia and Romania as well - to get there with the economic relations," the diplomat stated.
In the interview, the official talks about the prospect of Serbia's accession to the European Union, the recent tensions in Kosovo and his country's relationship with the North Atlantic Alliance.
"We won't be a NATO member. We have a very comfortable majority in the country in terms of joining the EU. At the same time, we have a much more comfortable majority that does not want us to be part of the NATO. The wounds are still fresh," the diplomat pointed out.
Branko Brankovic brought to mind, in this context, the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, stating that he is grateful to Romania for not participating in.
Moreover, the Ambassador briefly talks about the Sebastian Ghita case.
"The relations between the two countries are at a very high level and whatever it may appear - to say it in quotes - a problem should be solved bilaterally, in the spirit of friendship. I have no doubt that our ministers agree that something needs to be done in this matter, to the benefit of both countries and in order to maintain the very high level. I have no doubt that everything there is to be learned will be known. Most likely your people know this in detail, but we do not know," he explained.
AGERPRES: When it comes to the relations between Romania and Serbia, the issue that is always mentioned is the situation of the Romanian citizens of the Timoc Valley. Can you tell us where the discussions stand at this point?
Branko Brankovic: You recall that President Vucic recently paid a visit to Romania. I carried out substantial talks with Mr Iohannis, with the Prime Minister and the heads of the two chambers of Parliament. The minority topic, widely seen, was on the discussions agenda. There is no doubt that they all talked this thing in detail. Mr. Vucic stated that, as long as we have a mixed Romanian-Serbian committee for minorities, we have to give [the mixed committee] the opportunity to put all the problems on paper and present them to both governments for the next steps. Mr. Vucic said, and this is our policy, to do everything we can in agreement with the European Council Convention in respect to minorities. Therefore, whether we are talking about the Romanians of Voivodina or those of Timoc Valley, it's obvious that they have to benefit from equal treatment, in agreement with this convention. The last meeting of the mixed committee was in 2011 in Belgrade, and it hasn't been convened for various reasons - mainly because for a period of time it didn't have a co-president. Now we have two presidents and, at the initiative of Presidents Vucic and Iohannis, we await for this committee to convene here in Bucharest, as soon as possible. Taking into account that there was a very good collaboration, there is no doubt that following this meeting we will have results in accordance with the European Council Convention and at the very high level of relations between Serbia and Romania. I would be patient to see what they decide, because it is their duty to produce a result at the level of our bilateral relations, which are very good.
AGERPRES: Because we are talking about minorities, this makes me ask you about the Kosovo matter. How affects this aspect Serbia's plans to join the European Union?
Branko Brankovic: It's a long story. We haven't received any official request from any European official that we first should recognise the independence of Kosovo, that this aspect would be a condition in order to become a member. But the events on Monday [26 March] show things in a different light. My President said it very clearly, what happened on Monday wasn't just the Albanians' activity. We have a saying: the Albanians don't go to the toilet without asking the Americans and some European countries. What happened on Monday was prepared in detail. Why? In order to provoke the Serbians in northern Kosovo, so to create a reaction that would lead to the occupation of the north. For Kosovo and the co-sponsors of Kosovo's independence it is a thorn in the side. But the Serbians reacted in a very sophisticated manner, if you wish.
Police or the so-called police - because they are actually terrorists from the UCK (Kosovo Liberation Army) clothed in other uniforms - had tried to provoke as much as possible and had noticed in time that things were not going according to their plans. They started to be violent; you've probably seen photos and filming from there. That's how 32 people ended up in the hospital. But the Serbs were clever and they knew it was a challenge. You need to know that many Albanian forces had been deployed around Kosovo's northern area waiting for the sign when something was to start in Mitrovica - something the French call "la bagarre" [brawling, scandal]. At that moment, they would have to intervene. That was something that was organised not only with permission but also with plans from some Western countries. You will also see evidence in this respect. How come that KFOR and EULEX - which are the main bodies responsible for peace and security in Kosovo - did not show up when more than 100 armed police forces appeared? It is said that some of them were taking pictures and that was all. How come? So that manifestation was clearly orchestrated.
Coming back to what you said, as they know that Serbia will never recognise unilaterally the proclamation of Kosovo's independence, they wanted to do this by force, gaining power in the north, so that they might say: "This is a state, we have rights" and then the Western countries would open the procedures to receive Kosovo at the UN and UNESCO. Further proof is the fact that recently, at the United Nations in New York, the EU representative has invited the representatives of the EU member states, the ambassadors of the EU member states to a so-called working lunch, with the so-called consul of Kosovo attending for the first time. We strongly reject such approach. We believe that there is a way to invite Kosovo through the back door inside certain international organisations. And we have our interventions all over the world not to do so. At the same time, all five countries, including Romania, that do not recognise Kosovo refused to participate. And by the way, half of the rest of the ambassadors did not come. This is new proof that this is an orchestrated attempt to make Kosovo a member of some organisations even though most countries have not recognised Kosovo. They did what they did with the bombings [NATO bombings on Serbia in 1999], a war crime, and they did not say they were wrong and did not apologize. They have to do everything they can to prove that, quotation marks, they were right when they did what they did. They needed approval for those bombings on Yugoslavia without a Security Council decision in this regard. What they did was an example "par excellence" of a war crime. Not to mention the use of dispersion bombs, depleted uranium bombs, another crime against humanity.
AGERPRES: You are talking about war crimes, but in the context of former Yugoslavia, the war criminal of a country is often the hero of another country ...
Branko Brankovic: We do not have to talk about countries; we need to talk about individuals. Obviously, between 1991-1992 and 1995, many war crimes were committed by all parties and each has to pay for the crimes he or she has committed. It is an obvious thing that we support. The countries have done nothing, you cannot say that a single country has done so, but the bombing of Yugoslavia was a decision of the NATO member countries, and we are grateful to Romania (...) that it did not participate in the bombing. Romania did not participate in the bombing of Yugoslavia.
AGERPRES: But Romania opened its airspace to NATO airplanes then.
Branko Brankovic: What happened was a force directed against the basic principles of international law. They did not open it [the airspace], but the planes flew through without permission, I'm sure of that. They flew over without permission. This is new proof of the relations between Romania and Serbia. Do not forget that this year it is the 139th anniversary of diplomatic ties between the two countries.
AGERPRES: Since you mentioned the situation in the region, and in the light of EU accession, all the countries that were involved 20 plus years ago in a war will have to understand, relate within the Union. Serbia will have to relate, for example, with Albania, which you claim is involved in the Kosovo issue ...
Branko Brankovic: You've mentioned Albania. We have good relations with Albania; it has nothing to do with Kosovo. It supports Kosovo, but so does the United States, and we have good relations with the United States of America. Albania is part of this region, but what I mean is the former Yugoslavia. You know that we have a few problems with Croatia and we have been told that neither of us will enter the European Union without having settled our bilateral problems. How come that Slovenia and Croatia have entered the European Union even though they have issues, and big issues at that? We have smaller issues than Croatia because we have witnessed there the resurgence of some remains of WWII mentality. There are monuments dedicated to war criminals in that country. We are talking about the Croatian government's decision. Not all Croats are what the entity of the Ustashe [fascist and ultranationalist organisation] used to stand for during WWII. But there are movements in this sense in Croatia, and the party in power still appeals to that mentality. Croatia's first president, Mr. Tudjman, had ideas of such kind, but that's a long story.
Our President has recently paid a visit to Croatia, which means that we want dialogue and we want to solve the problems. If you remember this, in 1995 the Croatians engaged in a military action, which led to more than 200,000 Serbians being banned from Croatia. This was the first case when a country chased away its own citizens. And you probably know that, in Croatia, during the World War Two, there was this exhortation: one third of the Serbians must be killed, one third converted to Catholicism and one third - chased away from the country. In 1995, they somehow succeeded in this plan. But what I want to say is that the good relations we want to have with Croatia must be based on what they accepted before the European Union, which said: "You must do everything in your power so that all Serbians will be able to come back and recover their properties." Nothing like this has been done over the past twenty years. Just a few hundred did come back. More than that, there appeared some clandestine lists with their names, saying that they are guilty of war crimes and are to be arrested. People are afraid to come back, for they do not know if their names are on those arbitrary lists, which were made for political purposes. But we are ready to open all the dialogue channels with the Croatians, in order to have excellent relations with them.
AGERPRES: But could there be mutual understanding between the ex-Yugoslav countries, once they are together in the European Union?
Branko Brankovic: There is no much trust between Slovenia and Croatia, although both countries are in the European Union. So that I don't except the degree of understanding to grow once we access the European Union. We, Serbia, are acting according to several basic principles: 1. Serbia never compromises when it comes to its national and state's interests. Which is why we don't impose sanctions to Russia. 2. We don't accept ultimatums. We said "no" to ultimatums in 1914, 1941, to Hitler's ultimatum, to Stalin's ultimatum in 1948 and we rejected the NATO's ultimatum in 1999. That was the last ultimatum. I was a member of the Serbian and Yugoslav delegation to Rambouillet and I know what happened there. We are firmly rejecting the ultimatums. Another principle of ours is "one who dares wins." And we also have a motto: "defeated is one who gives up." We don't give up. These are, somehow, the rules that guide us. It doesn't mean that we want to impose them on other, but only to guide ourselves after them. We want to have good relations with everyone. That's why we want bilateral relations with Russia, China. Don't forget that approximately 100 countries did not recognize Kosovo's independence. There were also other countries who withdrew their declaration of recognition of Kosovo. More than that, it was another moment like that in the Czech Republic - when the Foreign Affairs Minister of this country led a delegation to Serbia, which opened the discussions about the declaration of recognition of Kosovo. The issue, in this context, was discussed like - how can we, the Czechs recognize Kosovo, if we do not recognize Crimea?
AGERPRES: President Aleksandar Vucic and President Klaus Iohannis said, in their common statement in Bucharest, that in the case of Kosovo. they are looking for a compromise solution. Still, what does this compromise solution mean?
Branko Brankovic: Compromise means that I accept something, you accept something and we mutually agree with what each of us accepted. In Serbia we are having an ample debate, upon President Vucic's initiative, involving experts in law and academicians, on the compromise that we can offer. He said that in end April - the beginning of May we could have an idea about what we are talking about. It is too early to say now, but we are working to find a compromise so that the Serbians, the Albanians and the other citizens to live there in peace and safety and be free people. But it is too early.
AGERPRES: In a previous interview you said that the sanctions against Russia are ridiculous, since the United States of America are far away and Russia is right here. What is your opinion now about the expulsion of the Russian diplomats?
Branko Brankovic: The Western world is hysterical right now when it comes to Russia, and this hysteria was induced by the Americans. The European countries, very many of them, unfortunately, have trust in and they have been supporting for years the politics proposed by the US. The Americans - the way in which President Trump reacted in North Korea's case is an example for this - they lost, in their politics, a lot of credibility, at least in what concerns the approach of the Korean matter. But let's also talk about the Middle East. The invasion of Iraq by the Americans and the British that led to problems we can still see today in Syria, Iraq and other countries in the region. The influence of the United States is great - in economic and military terms - no one is questioning this, but their influence is decreasing. Don't forget that, for the first time after 1945, the Russians are participating with military troops in the Middle East. Which means that the US's politics is slowly becoming less influent compared with how it used to be and that sometimes they are losing it. Do you think that it is just an accident the fact that Trump is removing someone from his immediate staff almost every week? We have good relations with the US, we want good relations with the US, but, either it accepts this or not, China and Russia are not just great powers, but they also have an influence in Europe and in the world. Do you remember when Charles de Gaulle said "Europe is extending from the Atlantic to the Urals" - meaning that it includes Russia. That's why the sanctions against Russia are violated the second day. So it is not in our interest to impose sanctions against Russia. Considering that we suffered for 10 years because of the sanctions imposed on us by the Security Council, we know that sanctions have never solved any problem. There are sanctions in place against North Korea, isn't that right? And? Nothing. German companies and companies from other European countries are behaving like there is no sanction against Russia. So I would say that it is superfluous and even ridiculous to impose sanctions and lift them immediately after that.
AGERPRES: Russia has big investments in the energy field in Serbia. Is this going to be a lever or a drag in the negotiations between Serbia and the EU for accession purposes?
Branko Brankovic: Like I said, we won't compromise our relations with anybody, including Russia. There is no need for such a thing - in order to enter the European Union to part our ways, in economic and political terms, with someone else. Honestly speaking, look at Germany, or France. They have relations with all the countries, including North Korea, on different channels. Which means that none of the EU countries cuts its ties with another country for any reasons. The expulsion of the diplomats comes with goods and bads - people are being rotated in the intelligence field. But the USA did not cut its ties with Russia or China. So why should we stop having relations or neglect some of our relations that we have, in any field, with Russia, when the ones that militate for cutting ties and ask us to do it, don't do it themselves?!
AGERPRES: China has significant investments in the Serbian infrastructure. But, once in the European Union, there will be the EU norms that must be enforced. How will Serbia manage then its relation with the Chinese investors in the infrastructure?
Branko Brankovic: First of all, it is too early to talk about this. You know that the standards of the Chinese companies are very high in several fields. Then, there is the "16+1" group - that includes countries of the EU, too - for which China has allocated 10 billion USD for economic operations. And all of these countries do cooperate with China in several fields. Alongside Hungary, we have an upgrading agreement of the Belgrade-Budapest railway, with Chinese money. From a loan, naturally. Nobody found anything wrong here. So, why all of a sudden, something is according to standards and something is not? 16 countries have accepted this and the EU accepted this, also, because Hungary and the rest said yes.
AGERPRES: The relations between Romania and Serbia have to do currently with the case of Sebastian Ghita for whom the Romanian state has filed an extradition request from Serbia.
Branko Brankovic: Firstly, I don't see this case as a problem. Your minister (Tudorel Toader, Justice minister, ed. n.) was in Belgrade the other days of the last week, and as far as I know he said that all the matter is judicial. I don't see the problem. We don't know the outcome of the talks yet.
AGERPRES: Information are according to which the IT company fathered by Sebastian Ghita would have won contracts in the public field, namely with ministers of Serbia.
Branko Brankovic: To be honest, I personally know nothing about this. Nothing has been announced or have I received any information from our ministry related to this. We don't know the details on his businesses, but undoubtedly your minister is aware of this and a swap of information took place. But the relations' level between the two countries is very high and whatever occurs - should I say between quotes - an issue, it must be solved bilaterally, in the spirit of friendship. I have no doubt in my mind that our ministers agree that something has to be done in this respect, in this matter, in the benefit of both countries and to keep the very high level. I have no doubt that what is to be learned will be learned. Most probably your people know this in detail, but we don't.
AGERPRES: You were talking about the Romania - Serbia relations. The Serbian Energy minister has recently said there is a possibility to create a gas pipeline between our countries.
Branko Brankovic: Everything is possible, with the good relations we've got and on conditions to find the money, obviously. We are ready to participate in such projects because your country is lucky to have almost enough amounts of oil and gas, which we couldn't say about us. We'd like to have such projects with Romania and with other countries that do have such resources. From the energy point of view, we have a very good cooperation. I believe we have a very good outlook.
Moreover, you must recall that president Vucic and president Iohannis, alongside Mrs. Prime minister and the presidents of the two chambers of the Parliament have talked of an agreement to speed up the commencement of the Belgrade-Timisoara motorway. President Vucic has promised that we'll do our best to find the money, on our behalf. The Romanian side also made a similar proposal. As regards the economic relations, you know the volume of the commercial exchanges is on an uptrend. We see each year 1.3 billion euros in imports and exports. We are very happy we have a 25 percent growth of the number of Romanian tourists in Serbia, over 100,000 persons.
The economic relations are good, and yet there is place for the better. We are striving to have our economic relations reach the level of the political ones between our countries. (...) It's a hard to touch target. Not that we won't wish for it, but the political relations level is that high that I wouldn't know what we could do, Serbia and Romania, too to get there with the economic relations.
AGERPRES: Could Serbia be a good example for Romania in the economic field? And I am talking here about AirSerbia, which has recovered through private investments. Could AirSerbia be an example for TAROM which is in the red?
Branko Brankovic: I had the pleasure to cut the ribbon when AirSerbia touched down in Bucharest. We say that the investments from certain Arab countries in AirSerbia are good. We have renewed our fleet and now we have millions of passengers. The company is operating Belgrade - New York direct flights. Other routes are worked on, such as Toronto or Chicago. Then routes to the Middle East are also operating, and we wish to reopen the flights to Australia. We have all Europe covered. Now we have a Belgrade-Beijing direct flight. We are happy we have daily Bucharest-Belgrade flights, which is a good sign of our field's cooperation. I'm not an expert, but I believe the omens are very good. What TAROM should do, I don't know. But I do know that AirSerbia and TAROM cooperate very well and we wish to continue this, and I also know that AirSerbia is fruitfully extending.
AGERPRES: Romania is celebrating this year 100 years since the unification of the Principalities. How do you see right now the idea of unity at European level?
Branko Brankovic: As for the European unity as a whole, the rules of the EU are very clear. If a member, one must follow these rules. And, as far as I can see - besides we are very, very happy that five countries of the EU haven't recognised the Kosovo - the talks in all the other fields are at a very good level. Issues occur every now and then. Now there are some issues with Poland, they want to activate Art. 7 against Poland, but I'm not going into details on this topic, then it is the case of Hungary, and again I'm not going into details. The idea is that the EU, as an organisation, must observe each member country's sovereignty and independence. To force a country with something detrimental to that country is not good and I sincerely hope that the rules until now are correct towards the countries, because otherwise they wouldn't be accepted by the member states. And yet sometimes the large EU countries - France, Germany, the United Kingdom is not part of this group anymore - have tried the long of the EU history to pressure. For instance, the sanctions against Russia - this was the invention of the UK, of France and Germany, to some extent, based on their cooperation with the United States. We witness a hysteria on this topic. Romania has expelled a Russian diplomat. The Americans, the British and the others are leaders in this respect. But this move has its ups and downs. The (diplomats, ed. n.) will return at some point. To get back to what I was saying before, the United States are losing their influence, to a certain extent. But it is wrong to be thought that this happens because Russia is doing something. No country should look for excuses on something other countries are doing. One must find the causes within themselves.
AGERPRES: Do you believe that the integration of Serbia with the EU will bring another perspective of seeing things - the experience of the domestic crises and the refusal of making compromises?
Branko Brankovic: Once we get to the European Union, we could talk about it as a kind of compromise, since we accept the EU rules but like I said we want to be respected as a sovereign, independent country, because we shall observe the other EU countries in the same way. We shall always follow the four principles, we have to, they are the reason why they have survived the First World War, the Second World War, Stalin.
AGERPRES: Define in one word the Serbia-NATO relationship, at this point.
Branko Brankovic: You must grant me two words. We won't be a NATO member. We enjoy a very comfortable majority in the country as regards the EU membership. At the same time, we have an even larger majority that doesn't want us to be a NATO member. Wounds are still young, if I may say so. We count for over 3,000 civil fatalities (because of the NATO air raids in 1999 - n.r.), around 12,000 injured - part of whom are crippled - and over 100 billion euros in damages. Wherever one goes in Belgrade or Serbia, they will see the signs of those bombardments. If only one wishes to commit suicide, one puts on Serbia's public agenda the idea of NATO membership. No chance. A few days ago, when it happened what has happened in Kosovo, Vucic said it again: we don't want to enter the NATO.
AGERPRES: So, the two words are "no chance".
Branko Brankovic: I'm old in the foreign policy and I've learned that a today's "no" could turn into a tomorrow's "yes". But, as regards the NATO matter, our Constitution says that we maintain our neutrality. I doubt I'll live to see Serbia within the NATO. And I intend to live long (he laughs). What has happened, what they did to us, is very fresh imprinted even in the minds of the young, not only of the grownups. Decades will pass until someone will say something in connection of a probable NATO membership. Who knows if the NATO will exist that far?!